Offer #3

EasyMoney_in_NC · Aug 21st, 2008, 07:25 PM

^^^^^^^^^ thats funny! And hits so home ..........its not funny. You must have been on commercial or large production residential jobs? Them Lumbie [racist reference removed] boys.........mmm piece of work they tend to be.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of anal retentive, meticulous contractors that will accept nothing but the finest work etc.....
But the reality is, lets take J's situation, there isn't enough money to go around, nor is there enough time for exemplary work (market type J's in). Those guys are on much larger jobs for real money and jobs that take 6-9-12 months. The reality (at least in my world) is that once learned, there'll be a caliber of sub's that will do the little low dollar low volume rehab stuff and thats what J will have to find, learn and learn how to use to the best of his ability. He won't have custom cabinet guys putting kitchen in a 100k home, those guys are on 100k kitchens.

What I'm ultimately trying to get across, is that although everything he's try to do is the right way to be thinking (to protect himself), it may not actual play out in real life. This caliber I spoke of don't do contracts and legalities. I've been building since 96 and have never had a contract with a sub and only one lien/indemnity agreement with a framer I fired. Everything is a verbal agreement, and a handshake. Of course my line of work is new const., rehabbing IS different, and he needs some way get his ideas across so a contract with the GC may be in order, but.....

I'm really very interested in his progress, maybe I've missed something, maybe I too can learn something. Everything I've written is from current, in the business experience. Having said that, I am a little tired of the dog and pony show the business seems to have become and am just trying to pass on the tribulations I've have. I know every market is different, but I also know that most of the guys here have at one time been in the Florida market............and Atlanta is between here and Florida

I guarantee you some fall off the truck in the ATL area!

JScott · Aug 21st, 2008, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by EasyMoney_in_NC

Everything I've written is from current, in the business experience.

From your posts, it sounds like you're in the business of cutting corners and then spending most of your time cleaning up messes because you were too lazy, cheap and/or skilled to do things the way a smart business-person would do them.

That's not the business I'm in.

So, I'm not sure your "business experience" translates to my business.

JScott · Aug 22nd, 2008, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by EasyMoney_in_NC

I swear, no one around here would get away with that for the market point you are in. The fact that most of the guys you're handing it to wouldn't have a clue what it means, all they want to know is what do you want done and when do they get paid.

Originally Posted by RussH

Again, JScott, Easy and I differ on this.

In fact, we've never done this to contractors, for fear it would make them ticked off.

Huh? You guys have never asked your contractors to sign a mechanics' lien waiver?!?!?

So, there's nothing to prevent one of your contractors to put a lien on your property and blackmail you into paying him off to get the lien removed. Sure, you can go to court over it, but when you're trying to flip a house, you probably don't want to spend the extra 6 months of holding costs fighting to get a lien removed from your house (since you won't be able to sell until the lien is removed, and the contractor certainly knows this).

No offense guys, but this is just plain bad business...your first responsibility should be to protect your business and your business assets, and if you don't get lien waivers signed, you're just putting your business at risk. I guess that's another difference between your "business" and mine.

Easy - if your workers are as dumb as you say they are, I can't imagine they would hesitate to sign a piece of paper to get a paycheck. Or maybe you've never asked?

EasyMoney_in_NC · Aug 22nd, 2008, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by JScott

From your posts, it sounds like you're in the business of cutting corners and then spending most of your time cleaning up messes because you were too lazy, cheap and/or skilled to do things the way a smart business-person would do them.

That's not the business I'm in.

So, I'm not sure your "business experience" translates to my business.

No, actually the complete opposite. If you'll remember back to previous discussions, I said it was imperative that you or your representative be on the job at all times. Messes are pro actively cleaned up or avoided before things become real issues.

And because I have a clue, I get the same end result that you will but for less. It all comes down to the numbers. I have built entire homes from scratch in as little as 3.5 months.....still standing and holding up well (some of my rentals) which in turn translates into a lot more $$ in my pocket in every sense (refi cash out, CF etc....) and to boot they are pretty nice homes (for little vinyl sided boxes).

There's a new saying............don't hate the player, hate the game

You'll find your comfort spot

EasyMoney_in_NC · Aug 22nd, 2008, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by JScott

Huh? You guys have never asked your contractors to sign a mechanics' lien waiver?!?!?

So, there's nothing to prevent one of your contractors to put a lien on your property and blackmail you into paying him off to get the lien removed. Sure, you can go to court over it, but when you're trying to flip a house, you probably don't want to spend the extra 6 months of holding costs fighting to get a lien removed from your house (since you won't be able to sell until the lien is removed, and the contractor certainly knows this).

No offense guys, but this is just plain bad business...your first responsibility should be to protect your business and your business assets, and if you don't get lien waivers signed, you're just putting your business at risk. I guess that's another difference between your "business" and mine.

Easy - if your workers are as dumb as you say they are, I can't imagine they would hesitate to sign a piece of paper to get a paycheck. Or maybe you've never asked?

Again grasshoppa, you'll learn. Here's a teaser. You prevent your sub from coming back simply by writing on the check "FINAL DRAW". If cashed, that little note at the bottom of the check constitutes a written contract, agreed to when the sub cashes it. Could they try to come back? Sure, if they do, you bond out the lien (releases title), show the judge the canceled check.......done.
Come on man, I understand you are new to this and want to do whats best for your business etc.......but we didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. What you are talking about doing shows the sub you don't trust them and if you want people to actually work for you, that felling needs to remain unwritten. If you've done your job and watched everything they've done, there should be no need for all this paperwork you wish for them to sign.

And yes they are stupies, but they know enough from being in the .....judicial system, that signing things binds them or provides proof etc and thats not something they care to have happen (hence the reason there are no written contracts.

Again, in higher end construction and commercial or production builders, all this paperwork is mandatory. But you're projects, like mine are small time, and thats what you'll get work labor (small time).

Get started and do a couple, come back and tell me I'm way off base. Come back and tell us that everything went smooth, on time and under budget and no one had issues signing all these contracts...............I hope for you, I'm wrong.

Hey you don't have to believe me now, and I'll understand, but at least keep what I tell you in the forefront of your mind as you start getting into this. Think WWED (what would easy do)

who knows maybe something I've said will help you through a situation.

JScott · Aug 22nd, 2008, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by EasyMoney_in_NC

Again grasshoppa, you'll learn. Here's a teaser. You prevent your sub from coming back simply by writing on the check "FINAL DRAW". If cashed, that little note at the bottom of the check constitutes a written contract, agreed to when the sub cashes it.

I assume you have consulted an attorney about this? Because I have, and he disagrees with you. A contractor can lien your property for a thousand different reasons, not just because you didn't pay your final draw (oh, and "final draw" doesn't mean it's a final payment...you could still owe for materials or a dozen other things).

Perhaps you know more than my attorney (I'm sure you think you do), but since he spent a lot of time taking tests and stuff, I'll go with him on this one.

And yes they are stupies, but they know enough from being in the .....judicial system, that signing things binds them or provides proof etc and thats not something they care to have happen (hence the reason there are no written contracts.

According to you, you have a situation where a bunch of stupid people work for you without any contracts or written documentation (because they are too dumb to understand them and you are scared it may make them not trust you) and you need to babysit them 100% of the time to make sure anything gets done...that doesn't sound like a scalable business...that sounds like amateur hour...

But, if it works for you, congratulations. I guess I just have bigger goals than you. To each his own.

Good luck!

JScott · Aug 22nd, 2008, 08:28 AM

I think I need to take a break from this site (or at least this thread) for a little while...I find myself wasting way too much time arguing and defending myself, and that time could much better be spent just focusing on building my business...

If anyone wants to continue following this thread, it will all be posted on my blog...

Russ H · Aug 22nd, 2008, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Russ H

Again, JScott, Easy and I differ on this.

Much of this thread has been about how Easy and I do business differently from each other.

I think you read it the wrong way. I was not saying Easy and I do it the same, and you are different.

I was saying Easy and I differ on this.

Originally Posted by JScott

I think I need to take a break from this site (or at least this thread) for a little while...I find myself wasting way too much time arguing and defending myself, and that time could much better be spent just focusing on building my business...

I think that might be wise, JScott.

You're getting feedback from folks who have been doing this for 20+ years, posting to try and help you avoid potential problems, and you're telling them they're wrong.

Note that we're not telling you that you are wrong-- we're just trying to gently make you aware of some of the subtleties of the contract business.

And the first rule of all contracts is:

They mean pretty much nothing other than a friendly understanding between parties.

Some folks (many, in fact) are happy to sign contracts b/c they mean nothing. They can change their minds and any time and their attys will back them up. Or that they can make it next to impossible to collect.

I learned this the hard way. I can't share the details, as this was part of our settlement.

********

An example of how we do business that will probably seem crazy to you:

We're currently working w/one of the top plumbing contractors in the state. Their portion of the project is 6 figures.

We have a quote (not contract) that they sent us, that we have signed.

But you know what?

This guy's old school (been plumbing for close to 40 years, and it was his dad's business, too).

For this guy, it all comes down to a handshake.

If at some point, he doesn't trust me, or feels like I'm trying to screw him, he's gone.

I realize this seems ridiculous to you, and from the outside, it would to me, too.

But this is a people business. If you have hired honorable people and you treat them right, they will bend over backwards to make things work (esp if you work w/them when problems come up, and you're known for cutting checks the same day as the inspection is approved).

Call it a flawed business model if you want. But please be aware that many of the good residential contractors across the country work this way.

(and yes, I realize that you find this hard to believe).

-Russ H.

PS Just as a point of fact, in the state of CA, if you are a contractor, you can only file a notice of mechanics liens for a residential construction project within a very short period of time, when you first take on a job-- NOT AFTERWARDS. So if I don't get a notice of lien right at the beginning, I know they haven't filed the paperwork.

In 20+ years of doing this and well over $10,000,000 worth of contracted construction work, wanna guess how many times I've received a notice of lien?

Twice. From the same hardware store, against one of the contractors on our job who was known for paying bills late.

We've NEVER gotten a mechanic's lien from a contractor. Ever.

You could say this was b/c all the contractors we hired were flaky, or stupid, or lacked business skills.

But it just might be because we hire honorable contractors who trust us. And that we have a great reputation for taking care of them, and paying them.

******

JScott, I understand you're working on developing a business model around rehabbing houses.

Your "B" approach is different from our "S" models.

Both Easy and I respect this.

I just think we both had hoped that sharing our experiences with you would help you out.

EasyMoney_in_NC · Aug 22nd, 2008, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Russ H

Much of this thread has been about how Easy and I do business differently from each other, in an effort to show how two S-type (self employed) contractors conduct business in different ways.

I think you read it the wrong way. I was not saying Easy and I do it the same, and you are different.

I was saying Easy and I differ on this.

I think that would be wise, JScott.

You're getting feedback from folks who have been doing this for 20+ years and then telling them they're wrong.

Note that we're not telling you that you are wrong-- we're just trying to gently make you aware of some of the subtleties of the contract business.

And the first rule of all contracts is:

They mean pretty much nothing other than a friendly understanding between parties.

Some folks (many, in fact) are happy to sign contracts b/c they mean nothing. They can change their minds and any time and their attys will back them up. Or that they can make it next to impossible to collect.

I learned this the hard way. I can't share the details, as this was part of our settlement.

********

Thank you for explaining this in ways I would have probably been a bit more .......not so P.C.

There's been a big loss of love in this thread! Here we are trying to assist and I feel kind of spat on personally. You said it absolutely correct, its not that J is wrong, its the system as we experience it. Maybe he just wants the answers he thinks he wants? And anything else is wrong? Maybe it will take time and money, and the school of real life construction to teach what we preach.
I don't need to spend my time trying to save someone from all the trials and tribulations that its taken me many years to work through, I have because I applaud people willing to step out on a limb (especially in this day and age), and what do I (you/we) get for it?

I'd hate to have to think twice before chiming in as deeply the next time. We're here to help each other succeed, I would say:

If you want help, don't argue with the advice/information you get. You can agree or disagree, its your prerogative , but don't argue points you have not experienced. I've made my money, will you?

phlgirl · Aug 23rd, 2008, 12:50 AM

It’s amazing how many different techniques there are out there.

I hesitate to comment much on this topic – as the construction end of the business is not my area of expertise and I am certainly NOT an attorney.

I will say this, JScott. My husband has owned two construction companies and, as you know, now manages all construction for our on-going real estate ventures. Although he signed many contracts when he was working as the contractor for commercial customers, he has NEVER signed a contract for construction work on our real estate investment ventures. All work completed is on a ‘handshake’. Like you, we offer lots of repeat business and this, combined with proper management, has been enough to keep a good majority of the contractors in line and coming back for more. Of course, we have had our share of ‘one & dones’. If a contractor does not perform to our standards, we will never call them again. On occasion, they are booted – mid-job - from the site.

Everyone has a different approach – and yours may work for you but I would be careful.

What’s that old saying? You don’t walk into a barber shop and ask them if you need a haircut. (Of Course you need a haircut!!) The same applies to attorneys. I didn’t quite get this when we started out…. I wanted to believe everything they said (and I met with LOTS of them). Many of them operate by instilling a good dose of FEAR in their clients – which, unfortunately, is often unwarranted.

But, trust me, if you walk into a law firm and mention Contracts, they are going to be THRILLED. Lawyers need work just like everyone else. Don’t let their fancy offices, shiny cars and watches fool you (they fooled me). This is not a slam on lawyers – they are worth their weight in gold and essential to any good team BUT, like anyone else, they must be managed. Often, the law is ALL THEY KNOW – so, understandably, they think it is the one and only way to do business.

Problem is, by creating all of these contracts, you may actually be putting yourself in a much worse position than had you been without them. Why did my husband sign so many contracts when he was performing work for commercial customers? Because he needed the contract in case he wanted to go after a non-paying customer. Without a contract, you don’t have much of a leg to stand on, when attempting to pursue legal action or implementation of a lien. WITH a contract, you have a much better case for action/lien – regardless of whether or not it is justified.

We have never had a construction lien placed on any of our properties.

Originally Posted by Russ H

But this is a people business. If you have hired honorable people and you treat them right, they will bend over backwards to make things work (esp if you work w/them when problems come up, and you're known for cutting checks the same day as the inspection is approved).

This sounds so simple but it is CRITICAL. This business (almost all business, in my opinion) is about Relationships.

Hang in there, JScott. Everyone has their own approach – what works for some does not work for others but it is good to know and understand as many of the methods as possible.

Btw, my construction manager said to call him any time if you want to discuss his approach.

(I would NOT mention the bit about his business methodology being 'just plain bad business').

hatterasguy · Aug 23rd, 2008, 03:30 PM

A lot of the contractors that my uncle and soon I will use, have been used by our family for 20-30 years. They are excellent, know what's what, and mostly everything is done on a handshake.

They would be insulted and tell me to F off if I tried to get them to sign a lein waiver.

Lots of ways to do this business.

EasyMoney_in_NC · Aug 23rd, 2008, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by JScott

I assume you have consulted an attorney about this? Because I have, and he disagrees with you. A contractor can lien your property for a thousand different reasons, not just because you didn't pay your final draw (oh, and "final draw" doesn't mean it's a final payment...you could still owe for materials or a dozen other things).

Claiming and PROVING are 2 completely different things my friend. And again, a properly written canceled check goes along way. I just hope you don't have to find out.

Originally Posted by JScott

Perhaps you know more than my attorney (I'm sure you think you do), but since he spent a lot of time taking tests and stuff, I'll go with him on this one.

Okay, I don't know about the rest of you, but that last one just slayed me

LOL.....

"I test, therefore I am"

there's a defense.

Russ H · Aug 23rd, 2008, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by JScott

A contractor can lien your property for a thousand different reasons, not just because you didn't pay your final draw (oh, and "final draw" doesn't mean it's a final payment...you could still owe for materials or a dozen other things).

Actually, I had wanted to post this when I saw what Easy wrote on his checks:

Our attys advised us to write "Full Satisfaction and Accords" on any last/final payment checks if we had a sticky situation.

Checks are also considered contracts, since they are signed by both parties, and this wording is supposed to help out in court.

But I stand by my original points (made on this and other threads):

-Some people will sign anything, because they will do whatever they want, and let their attys sort it out.

-Take care of your contractors, and they will take care of you

-Find honorable people worthy of your trust, and let them know you trust them.

-Work through any problems, quickly, and with a "want to help" attitude. Give and take. The more you give, the better your final product will be, if you hire honorable people.

-If you *don't* hire honorable people (or think you did and find you didn't), cut them loose with grace. And pay them. Sabotage is WAAAAAAY too expensive an alternative. Just consider it a cheap learning experience-- and never use them again!

-Contracts are nothing more than a written understanding between parties. Attys and judges (and savvy businesspeople) know that things change, and contracts won't save you when this happens (sitting down and talking things out might, at least this has been our experience).

Thanks to all for the posts, rep speed, PMs, etc. I'm glad this thread has been helpful!

-Russ H.

JScott · Sep 8th, 2008, 12:55 AM

Looks like I'm finally going to close on this one on Friday (there have been Title issues and the bank's attorneys are swamped). The extra time was good considering how busy I've been on my other properties, and has given me time to put together the Scope of Work on this one, get bids, and find a GC that I really like.

Here is my Scope of Work for anyone interested. This one will entail a bunch of layout changes (removing lots of walls between the living room, dining room, and kitchen); luckily, it's a truss roof, so none of the interior walls are load-bearing, and the removal of the walls should be straightforward.

My labor budget on this one is $22K and my materials budget is $13K.

I sign the paperwork with the GC tomorrow, and hopefully he will start pulling permits this week. Unless there are more closing issues with the bank, demo will start next Monday...

EasyMoney_in_NC · Sep 9th, 2008, 08:02 AM

May I ask who came up with the cost projections? I ask b/c there seems to be quite a bit going on. Do those figures include the GC's profit?
I noticed you are adding a few HVAC registers........is the current heat pump capable of the extra load (600 sqft/ton)?

Lately it seems that we have bruised your sense of man with our questions and comments, for which I don't believe anyone was attempting to do....only assist in your quests. And I still think we are all here to help out and wouldn't mind second checking your #'s and ideas before implementing, so take no offense

okay?

JScott · Sep 9th, 2008, 09:02 AM

No offense taken at all...always appreciate offers to help!

Here is the breakdown of the heavily negotiated prices from the GC for this project (you've seen the scope of work above). This only includes labor, building materials (like sheet-rock, decking boards, gutters, mortar, nails, etc), and the A/C and hot water heater units (and also includes the GC's profit):

Permits: $385
Demo: $950
Framing and Floor Leveling: $600
Repair soffits/fascia board/siding/trim: $250
Repair/replace damaged gutters: $300
Install 4 windows: $360
Install front door, rear door, french doors: $300
Plumbing: $1400
Electrical: $1800
HVAC: $2000
Sheetrock: $975
Install baseboard, crown, 9 interior doors, 2 bi-folds, 1 french door: $900
Interior paint: $1300
Pressure wash exterior: $250
Exterior paint: $650
Install kitchen cabinets, island, countertops, and bath vanities: $600
Install bathroom mirrors: $80
Install bathroom closet shelving: $50
Install master shower door (includes door): $300
Tile kitchen floor and backsplash: $900
Tile two bathroom floors and master shower: $1775
Build 16'x10' back deck with steps and no hand-rail: $1045
Install Carpet and Pad (doesn't include carpet/pad): $200
Install Laminate Floor (doesn't include laminate floor): $1100
Install Vinyl Floor in laundry room: $100
Professional cleaning: $175
Trash removal/dumpster: $395
Landscaping (trim shrubs, remove dead tree, correct some grading, install pine straw bedding, etc): $1075
Porta-John for site: $90

Total: $20,305

Plus I add about 10% for surprises and overages, and get $22K for labor costs.

Would LOVE to get any feedback on the specific pricing and anything that I should be concerned about! And if anyone wants to see the more-detailed bid description, I'm happy to PM that (the above line items are summarized for brevity).

Thanks in advance!!!

Aug 21st, 2008, 07:25 PM	#41 (permalink)
EasyMoney_in_NC Level: (7) Lexus Joined: Sep 2007 Locale: Wilmington NC Age: 38 Posts: 333 Thanks: 5 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Offer #3 ^^^^^^^^^ thats funny! And hits so home ..........its not funny. You must have been on commercial or large production residential jobs? Them Lumbie [racist reference removed] boys.........mmm piece of work they tend to be. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of anal retentive, meticulous contractors that will accept nothing but the finest work etc..... But the reality is, lets take J's situation, there isn't enough money to go around, nor is there enough time for exemplary work (market type J's in). Those guys are on much larger jobs for real money and jobs that take 6-9-12 months. The reality (at least in my world) is that once learned, there'll be a caliber of sub's that will do the little low dollar low volume rehab stuff and thats what J will have to find, learn and learn how to use to the best of his ability. He won't have custom cabinet guys putting kitchen in a 100k home, those guys are on 100k kitchens. What I'm ultimately trying to get across, is that although everything he's try to do is the right way to be thinking (to protect himself), it may not actual play out in real life. This caliber I spoke of don't do contracts and legalities. I've been building since 96 and have never had a contract with a sub and only one lien/indemnity agreement with a framer I fired. Everything is a verbal agreement, and a handshake. Of course my line of work is new const., rehabbing IS different, and he needs some way get his ideas across so a contract with the GC may be in order, but..... I'm really very interested in his progress, maybe I've missed something, maybe I too can learn something. Everything I've written is from current, in the business experience. Having said that, I am a little tired of the dog and pony show the business seems to have become and am just trying to pass on the tribulations I've have. I know every market is different, but I also know that most of the guys here have at one time been in the Florida market............and Atlanta is between here and Florida I guarantee you some fall off the truck in the ATL area! __________________ "You can't be king of the world, if you're slave to the grind" - S. Bach Last edited by Russ H; Aug 21st, 2008 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Easy, stop the race references or you will be banned for 6 months.

Aug 22nd, 2008, 08:28 AM	#47 (permalink)
JScott Level: (3) Lamborghini Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,452 Thanks: 34 Thanked 122 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Offer #3 I think I need to take a break from this site (or at least this thread) for a little while...I find myself wasting way too much time arguing and defending myself, and that time could much better be spent just focusing on building my business... If anyone wants to continue following this thread, it will all be posted on my blog... __________________ J Scott http://www.reistartup.com

Aug 23rd, 2008, 03:30 PM	#51 (permalink)
hatterasguy Level: (6) Mercedes Joined: Jul 2008 Age: 23 Posts: 405 Thanks: 9 Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Offer #3 A lot of the contractors that my uncle and soon I will use, have been used by our family for 20-30 years. They are excellent, know what's what, and mostly everything is done on a handshake. They would be insulted and tell me to F off if I tried to get them to sign a lein waiver. Lots of ways to do this business. __________________ " to buy while blood is running in the streets." Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Sep 8th, 2008, 12:55 AM	#54 (permalink)
JScott Level: (3) Lamborghini Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,452 Thanks: 34 Thanked 122 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Offer #3 Looks like I'm finally going to close on this one on Friday (there have been Title issues and the bank's attorneys are swamped). The extra time was good considering how busy I've been on my other properties, and has given me time to put together the Scope of Work on this one, get bids, and find a GC that I really like. Here is my Scope of Work for anyone interested. This one will entail a bunch of layout changes (removing lots of walls between the living room, dining room, and kitchen); luckily, it's a truss roof, so none of the interior walls are load-bearing, and the removal of the walls should be straightforward. My labor budget on this one is $22K and my materials budget is $13K. I sign the paperwork with the GC tomorrow, and hopefully he will start pulling permits this week. Unless there are more closing issues with the bank, demo will start next Monday... __________________ J Scott http://www.reistartup.com

Sep 9th, 2008, 08:02 AM	#55 (permalink)
EasyMoney_in_NC Level: (7) Lexus Joined: Sep 2007 Locale: Wilmington NC Age: 38 Posts: 333 Thanks: 5 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Offer #3 May I ask who came up with the cost projections? I ask b/c there seems to be quite a bit going on. Do those figures include the GC's profit? I noticed you are adding a few HVAC registers........is the current heat pump capable of the extra load (600 sqft/ton)? Lately it seems that we have bruised your sense of man with our questions and comments, for which I don't believe anyone was attempting to do....only assist in your quests. And I still think we are all here to help out and wouldn't mind second checking your #'s and ideas before implementing, so take no offense okay? __________________ "You can't be king of the world, if you're slave to the grind" - S. Bach

Sep 9th, 2008, 09:02 AM	#56 (permalink)
JScott Level: (3) Lamborghini Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,452 Thanks: 34 Thanked 122 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Offer #3 No offense taken at all...always appreciate offers to help! Here is the breakdown of the heavily negotiated prices from the GC for this project (you've seen the scope of work above). This only includes labor, building materials (like sheet-rock, decking boards, gutters, mortar, nails, etc), and the A/C and hot water heater units (and also includes the GC's profit): Permits: $385 Demo: $950 Framing and Floor Leveling: $600 Repair soffits/fascia board/siding/trim: $250 Repair/replace damaged gutters: $300 Install 4 windows: $360 Install front door, rear door, french doors: $300 Plumbing: $1400 Electrical: $1800 HVAC: $2000 Sheetrock: $975 Install baseboard, crown, 9 interior doors, 2 bi-folds, 1 french door: $900 Interior paint: $1300 Pressure wash exterior: $250 Exterior paint: $650 Install kitchen cabinets, island, countertops, and bath vanities: $600 Install bathroom mirrors: $80 Install bathroom closet shelving: $50 Install master shower door (includes door): $300 Tile kitchen floor and backsplash: $900 Tile two bathroom floors and master shower: $1775 Build 16'x10' back deck with steps and no hand-rail: $1045 Install Carpet and Pad (doesn't include carpet/pad): $200 Install Laminate Floor (doesn't include laminate floor): $1100 Install Vinyl Floor in laundry room: $100 Professional cleaning: $175 Trash removal/dumpster: $395 Landscaping (trim shrubs, remove dead tree, correct some grading, install pine straw bedding, etc): $1075 Porta-John for site: $90 Total: $20,305 Plus I add about 10% for surprises and overages, and get $22K for labor costs. Would LOVE to get any feedback on the specific pricing and anything that I should be concerned about! And if anyone wants to see the more-detailed bid description, I'm happy to PM that (the above line items are summarized for brevity). Thanks in advance!!! __________________ J Scott http://www.reistartup.com